Penn State sanctions

Discussion in 'American Football Talk' started by Rids, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Rids

    Rids Member

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    Since Deuvl mentioned it I figured I'd post something on here.

    So many pieces to the puzzle that really aren't clear or just hearsay to this point. No one will ever know what Joe Paterno knew or when he knew it. No one will ever know why the initial police investigation in 1998 into Sandusky was halted and shelved, even though they took witness statements.

    In case people haven't heard here's the overview.

    $60 million dollars to create a foundation to help sex abuse victims.
    Loss of 10 scholarships immediately and 10 more per year for 4 years.
    Bowl ineligible for 4 years
    Vacating all wins from 1998 to 2011.

    What it means.

    They'll be competing in the B1G TEN with 20 fewer scholarship players than the rest of the conference. Joe Paterno had left as the all time winning football coach and now sits 8th on the all time list. From 409 wins to 298. It also strips PSU of 6 Bowl wins.

    The 4 years with no Bowls means that this current recruiting class can never play in post season football, regardless of how good their season is. Likely drives away top level recruits for the next 7 or 8 or even a decade. It also means they are not eligible for their slice of the Bowl Money that the B1G TEN gets annually. The great debate will start now as to whether the PSU or SMU punishments are harsher. With the new dollars involved in all of the TV deals that will drop their annual revenues a lot.

    PSU was the 3rd highest revenue generating school in the NCAA at $100 million dollars. They won't reach that level this year at all.

    The game day program from the last "official" Joe Paterno win in 1997:

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. deuvl

    deuvl Moderator
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  3. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Joe Paterno loses a ton of W's

    THe former Pedd State coach had a ton of his wins subtracted from his record.

    Should be noted he still has more career wins than the following list of mugs, COMBINED -

    Greg 'Sgt. Slaughter' Marshall, White Zombie Daly, PLOP LaPolice, Jeff Reinbold, Urban Bowman, Rainman Huard, Richie Hall, Doug Berry.

    Hall of Famers, all!!!:D
     
  4. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Thing is, these wins being taken away from Penn State. As usual, academia finds strange ways to punish the kids & not solve the problem. Those players earned those victories. How can you take away something the players worked hard for, say 12 years ago??? Either a Bowl Game victory or regular season??? How stupid is that? Sure, fine Penn State $60 million, take away the scholarships although why take them totally away? Why not give the extra 10 scholarships taken away to other programs at the school as was suggested last night in a discussion on BTN? But to penalize players years ago who had nothing to do with it is ludicrous.
     
  5. Rids

    Rids Member

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    None of the other sports need to add scholarships. Basketball gets 12.4 scholarships to field a 12 player roster for example.

    The key behind removing the wins was to punish Joe Paterno's legacy. He was pretty determined to retire as the coach with the most wins so taking 111 wins away drops him way down the list.
     
  6. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Last night on BTN they said that these sanction vs Penn State may be worth than the "Death Penalty" & that the NCAA actually strongly considered it. What is the death penalty? Do they mean that the NCAA was considering killing the football program at Penn State. Death is final so did that also mean that PS would never have had another football program if it was killed off? And is this why Penn State signed off on the sanctions? Rids, your take, please.
     
  7. Rids

    Rids Member

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    The NCAA Death Penalty is what they gave the football program at SMU back in the 80s. Basically shut the program down for a full calendar year which means they can't play and they can't recruit. The reason why they believe that it's potentially worse is because it will basically drop the program down to second tier recruits for the next 5 years (not to say that only 5 Star recruits coming out of high school are worth recruiting or that 2 star recruits can't turn into big stars because that happens all the time). SMU took roughly 20 years to return back to the national stage and they still aren't back to the position that they were at in the early 80s. No Eric Dickerson's are going there even these days.

    It's a really tough situation. I don't believe the Freeh report is totally accurate with what actually occurred but how can you prove it? Jerry Sandusky was obviously a monster and that he was still able to use the president's suite to take in games is obviously in poor taste.

    I want to take everyone back to 1998 and the investigation by the Penn State Police Department. Unlike the rent a cops that cruise around the U of C campus to ticket your car or tell you not to park there the Penn State Police are a formal police department that can prosecute every law on the book. Rent a cop forces have to turn over the majority of cases to a larger force while this group can arrest murderers or say rapists. Why they felt that they couldn't generate enough evidence even with 2 eye witnesses in the 1998 case we may never know. Imagine if they did that the rest of the garbage would never have happened. That Sandusky was able to just resign and walk away is a crime.

    Why the school didn't wake up a little more when again in 2002 they had another case with an eyewitness is just boggling. There is where I hold JoePa and Coach Mac in disregard. Both of them should have done something after it was clear that the upper levels weren't going to follow through. Question is what is that appropriate time? Is it a week, month or 2 months? Do you believe your boss when they say "We're gathering info"? When do you go above their head after they've assured you that they are going to handle it? How much trust do you have in your boss, at a institution of higher learning, with no criminal history? I would suspect that I would trust my superiors a fair bit given the same situation.

    I find that it's just too easy to lay it all on the head of Joe Paterno who has passed away and can't face the accusations or the punishment.
     
  8. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Well, , I still think punishing players who won games back in the late 90's & now in their fortys doesn't make a lot of sense. The NCAA ngoing to demand these players give back their chyampionship rings?? The saying we hear all the time "They can't take this championship away" I guess doesn't apply to the NCAA. Punish the perpetrators but not the innocent alumni players who had nothing to do with this.
     
  9. deuvl

    deuvl Moderator
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    agreed. you can't erase the games themselves no matter what you do. In any event the NCAA is going to look like crap too for having ever allowed this to happen so the more they hurt the players the more they hurt themselves.
     
  10. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Punish the Penn State President for looking the other way. Punish the AD for doing the same. Punish the assistant coach who witnessed a sexual assault by Sandusky on a kid in a shower & not doing anything more than telling Paterno. Paterno already was punished as he passed away & his legacy is forever tarnished. Punish the Penn State Police & punish the State College police for doing virtually nothing. But don't punish the players who already won on the field. Taking away victories as far back as 1998 to take away Paterno's all time victory record??? Like really, Paterno is DEAD so who is really being punished here? Paterno or the players who were absolutely innocent??? Sometimes I wonder where these Ivory Tower NCAA academics ever got the brains to graduate from grade 6 let alone university.
     
  11. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    If I played for Penn State back during those years dating back to 1998 & the victories were taken away from me... & the NCAA wanted me to return a Bowl championship ring... I'd say come get it & find a rifle then a baseball bat to use when some stupid NCAA goofball official tried to take it away from me.
     
  12. deuvl

    deuvl Moderator
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    good call. might actually happen. a lot of players are miffed. does the NCAA get to refund all the money they made off those games ? :dodgy:
     
  13. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    I wonder if any former players will sue for damages?? Love to see it.
     
  14. deuvl

    deuvl Moderator
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    most definitely. NCAA opened up a big can of worms.
     
  15. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Forever now their program will be known as Pedd State.

    The president and AD should have gotten a tad of jail time and maybe a couple dates with Uncle Jerry

    However, the program had to be nullified for how the crimes went down and how top officials turned the proverbial blind eye.

    Now, I'm actually cheering for this program, especially Coach Bill O'Brien and I'm impressed at how many of the players are staying with the program, these are honourable men.

    They can't get bowl games for four years. - ----- but there's no sanction against winning.

    A great winning program, a nice ranking from BCS - WE ARE NITTANY! WE ARE NITTANY!
     
  16. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    They won't win though, Nate. Loss of 40 scholarships over 4 years & loss of potential Bowl game revenue as well as top recruits not wanting to play there will have the Nittany Lions football program in a shambles that wilol take a decade to recover from. Bill O'Brien may start the thing but rest assured he won't finish it.
     
  17. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Probably have to agree. This year will be O'Brien's only year with a ton of vets and some decent running and quarterback. Without scholarships - nobody is going to go to Penn State (ie. Pay to Play)
     
  18. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Think of what the loss of 10 scholarships a year & no Bowl games for 4 years means? Penn State won't be able to recruit for depth... Or for star power. They will have to have a smaller roster. They will have more injuries without the players being able to take the injured players places. So, they will lose & lose badly. All the while knowing the top recruits will go to other schools because they will have a chance to showcase their skills in Bowl games means tier 2 players will go to Penn State instead. It'll be a mess. They could be as good as a lower FCS team in a power FBS Conference, the Big 10 in a couple of years. Ugly.
     
  19. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Question for Rids or anyone else.

    Could Pedd State still give out academic scholarships to some of its football players?

    ie. Give someone a full academic scholarship which pays for their education but lean towards those who play football?
     
  20. Rids

    Rids Member

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    The university could give an academic scholarship and the players could also receive financial aid as a student. They wouldn't be eligible for athletic monies though. NCAA FBS athletic scholarships are full or nothing, they don't break them up like at the D2 or CIS level.

    There are a few students a year that give back their athletic scholarships because they are eligible for other scholarships or just can pay their own way to open up a scholarship for an incoming freshman.
     

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