Rider Money Makers

Discussion in 'CFL League Talk' started by Rids, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Rids

    Rids Member

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    Saw this on twitter:

    Now the question is how are the Riders running with expenses in the high $20s million when most teams are down at the $20 million mark or less? And it wasn't that long ago that average team expenses were sub-$18 million.
     
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  2. Christoph

    Christoph Member

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    Could it have something to do with the bizarre nonsensical management structure nobody understands? Or maybe the fact that they consider the SMS to be like a stop sign in Montreal, merely a suggestion?
     
  3. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Amazing with revenues like that, that CFL teams can't afford to play their players more than the salary cap is now. Thanks Toronto, for dragging the CFL down with you. The other thing is this, with new stadiums so small in the East (22,000 in Hamilton & 24,000 in Ottawa) how is the CFL ever going to be able to afford to pay their players?
     
  4. Rids

    Rids Member

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    Trouble is they are only posting a 3 million dollar profit for a 29 million dollar revenue. That's troubling to me.

    When I was digging into the potential Quebec City expansion team we were looking at annual costs of $12 to $15 million dollars and expectations of a revenue stream worth $18 to 20 million dollars meaning the expansion costs would be absolved in roughly 5 seasons of play. So the ownership group needed partners to commit to a 5 year run without taking a dime out. The recovery of everything would come in year 8 or 9 when they would get to host a Grey Cup.

    So when a team brings in $29 million but only profits $3 when I'd expect to see larger return that's an issue. I'm sure the creative accountants of the world found other ways to address it.
     
  5. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Agree with Rids - 3 on 29 is barely a 10% return on invstmt.

    After salary costs (approx. 5 million) you gotta be able to recover at least 5 mill. in profit on the last 24....they must be pouring crazy money into two buttholes - Marketing + Executive compensation, I'm sure their other operating costs are in line with most other CFL teams.
     
  6. Christoph

    Christoph Member

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    Yeah what on earth are they spending all that money on? I mean what's the SMS at right now? Definitely a tiny fraction of that anyway.
     
  7. Rids

    Rids Member

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    The 2012 CFL SMS is $4.35 million. Which makes the salary floor $3.9 million
     
  8. Christoph

    Christoph Member

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    Yup, small fraction indeed.
     
  9. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    While players are obviously underpaid, we know CFL execs sure aren't. GM's, coaches & execs are well compensated indeed. In the $300 to $400,000 range if not more. While I don't doubt they deserve itfor the work that they do, the players have to be paid more.
     
  10. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Wow - I feel like I'm finally making a difference. Most of the dolts & padres in Wpg think guys like Bauer, Kelly, Taman, Murphy, etc. were doing the job for free (or under $200k). Those days are long gone and I'm glad some folks are starting to recognize it.
    Until executive salaries are published (community teams should be obligated to do exactly that) there's no limit on exec. salaries. I got threatened by the big man in Wpg. for saying he was in the $450,000 to $550,000 vicinity......no question Wally B. is in the $450,000 range, same with Pauper in Montreal.
    Mark Andre Trestman ain't working for under $380,000 to $400,000.
    Huffer has to be in the $375k area.
    Buffalo Butt (Barker) is probably stealing around $320k from the human donation machine (Braley)
    Joe Mack estimate is around $350,000
    Plop estimate is $320 to $330k
    Sonic - around $340k
     
  11. Rids

    Rids Member

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    To over simplify it the coaches are working 12 months and the players are working 6.

    I do agree though that the players need to see an increase in salary overall and as long as it works financially for the League that move should be done in larger jumps than the current increase of $50,000 a year. If I was the CFLPA I would be pushing for a jump to $5 million for the SMS, remove the salary floor idea (worst in pro sports as it handcuffs franchises in rebuilding stages), bump the minimum salary to $50,000 and increase the compensation for the mini-camps to $500 for the weekend plus flights.

    It's not just a competition to retain players for the League over other options but also to retain coaches. CFL coaches are making less than many NCAA coaches.
     
  12. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    As we certainly found out this off season with assistant coaches jumping to the NCAA.
    Somehow, I don't get the feeling the CFL cares about how many hours the assistants put in & how they are compensated or whether they get pensions. These issues were there years ago & nothing has ever been done to make things better for assistaant coaches. Guys like Braley, Wettenhall in Montreal, Young in Hamilton, the Riders, Esks, Winnipeg & the Flames being the new owners of the Stamps just are set on doing business the old fashioned way which is running the league like a Mom & Pop organization.
    This negative image is league wide which is why the Argos have so much trouble drawing fans as the perception is that their team is Mickey Mouse. Hard to take the Argos seriously when other sports in Toronto are run so diffferently. The teams in Toronto may not win but you can't say they treat their players badly. Same in Hamilton with the stadium issues they've had, Ottawa the same.
    In Winnipeg, fans are saying it's okay for the stadium construction delays because "It's just the CFL". Bomber fans are basically saying that being cheap & disorganized as the Bombers are when it comes to the new stadium was to be expected. The feeling is the owners of the NHL Jets would never have allowed the construction schedule to get so far out of hand.
    I don't see a lot of progressive ownership in the CFL to change the image of a league that is known to be cheap. And by cheap, I really mean cheap. We all know that as longtime fans. Some teams do treat their players better than others but still the league is seen to be cheap.
    Yet, despite all that as fans league wise, we keep watching & supporting our teams in spite of it all.
     
  13. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Rids - we all know CFL assistants (the senior ones) earn anywhere from $115,000 to $200,000....

    I'll defer to your estimates. What is the range for CFL GMs?
    For CFL head coaches?
    For CFL defensive coaches?
    For Assistant GMs?
    For CEOs?
     
  14. Christoph

    Christoph Member

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    Don't the players have to train year round to stay in football shape?
     
  15. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    The players have off season jobs so I guess underpaying them makes it right.
     
  16. Rids

    Rids Member

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    Everything has a price. They have a six month contract and then their rights are owned for six months by the club when neither the club or the player have a source of revenue via football.

    If you read my whole post I agree that they are underpaid as a whole and that I agree with increasing the annual SMS as well as the League minimum, as long as it doesn't put the League back into the one foot in the grave situation.

    Having 1 year of great wages doesn't work if the League fails to operate the next year (aka the XFL).
     
  17. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Agreed, Rids. I also agree with you the SMS should be close to 5 or even $6 million.
     
  18. Rids

    Rids Member

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    True. I just don't think they can go from $4.4 million next year to $6 million without a big new sponsor that ponies up.
     
  19. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

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    Something is not right with the revenues, though. We can all see it.
     
  20. Bronko

    Bronko Member

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    Lot of in-between money getting mysteriously incinerated I'd say.

    Executive compensation in this league has never been higher. Lots of high priced GMs, assistant GMs, VPs of Marketing, VP of Scouting, Primary Trainer, Assistant Trainers, Equipment Mgr, Asst. Equip. Managers, VP Brand Development, Director PR, CEO, COO, Facilities Mgr., Travel Coordinator, Hotel Booker, Communication Mgr., 8 to 11 coaches, Training camp guest coaches, Scouting Network and a few more I'm sure none of us know 'bout.

    Most top-heavy in places like Edmonton, Sask'n, Winnipeg, BC - lesser in less-revenue mkts like Hammy, Toronto.

    I'm sure they could conjure up the cap from 4.35 to 4.85 next year, going to 5.25 year after, 5.5 year 3, 5.75 year 4, 6 in year 5.....
     

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