What's Wrong With The Stampeders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

Discussion in 'Calgary Stampeders Talk' started by iso_55, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    11
    Just some thoughts after our last game. Some alarm bells are going off which I thought I'd never see under a John Hufnagel run club. I'd be interested in fans feedback here. Either I am on the money or off base.
    I think Calgary has a very good coaching staff which gives me some hope to cling to that things will get better. Where I believe that the Stamps have really fallen down in recent seasons is in player personnel. Decisions to release players, not signing adequate or better replacements, deliberately sitting out the FA market thinking this team was still a GC contender & a bad CFL draft this year.
    We took Ameet Pall & passed on some other blue chippers. We could have taken a kid like Sam Hurl in the second round & didn't. These decisions are coming back to haunt us big time. It's alarming to know our Canadian strength on the offensive line & receiver is just not good enough. We haven't had any dominant Canadian receivers since Ryan Thelwell & Brett Ralph. That was 2008 & 2009. We started an inexperience Johnny Forzani before he was really ready to play & have suffered thru his growing pains the past 2 seasons. Some games he is great & others not so great. Why was he allowed to start being so green yet Anthony Parker who is probably more pro ready languishes on the bench? I won't get into any politics here but it can't help be noticed.
    The other conclusion I have come to is that the Stamps got to this point because of arrogance & complacency. I think Huff was going a bit soft thinking he had the CFL world by the tail. That the Stamps are the best organization in the CFL. That they draft better than anyone else. That the players they have are better than anybody else.
    Well, welcome back to reality. I think that kind of thinking has hurt this team. The edge had gone off this organization. Maybe this will be a wake up call & whatever happens this season will drive Huff & company to not be complacent anymore & to rethink the way they recruit & sign players. Hopefully get that sense of urgency back Huff had when he first got here.
     
    Tags:
  2. Christoph

    Christoph Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    10
    RE: Alarming Observations (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    Is anybody ready to admit that we're missing Jim Barker? He's arguably the best player personnel guy in the league (he's certainly on par with the very best anyway) and it's only natural that we're seeing some fall of in his absence.

    I would also agree with you iso that this team seems to have become overconfident that it can let anybody go and find a superior replacement through the draft and their neg list. With a small handful of exceptions (Nick Lewis etc.), they retain very few players who are due for raises.

    It's been years since this team has seen a top tier pass rusher. Look how much more pressure Chris Jones defense was able to generate with the Argos than he was able to get running the same system in Calgary in recent years.

    The offensive line has gone from arguably the best in the league and was the foundation of the most productive running game in the league a year ago despite undergoing a major transition at running back, to struggling week after week to prevent Cornish from being caught in the backfield as the ball is handed to him. That unit has retained essentially the same personnel group from a year ago so we can eliminate that as the primary issue. There was however one major personnel change made in the off season that is directly related to that line and it has nothing to do with the guys who strap on the pads...

    While I agree that we still have a solid coaching staff, Chris Jones was a bigger loss than I personally anticipated. Even worse though is the loss of offensive line coach Kris Sweet to which I made veiled reference to above. Both made lateral moves to the exact same positions in other organizations and it raises a very serious question. Why? Is there some fundamental flaw in the leadership of the organization? Is Hufnagel taking over for Tom Higgins and winning a Grey Cup merely the equivalent of John Gruden taking over for Tony Dungy and winning a Superbowl on the strength of the groundwork his predecessor layed?

    Maybe not quite. Hufnagel's success in subsequent years has been far greater than Gruden's. Meanwhile Higgins isn't even coaching anymore and Dungy went on to helm a franchise that won game in the NFL over the course of the decade than any other and a Super Bowl title of his own.

    Still I am beginning to suspect we may have overrated Hufnagel as a coach. The team continues to have discipline problems, an ongoing theme during his tenure. I still think he is the best man for the job, but the Stamps organization may be pretty average for the foreseeable future without the elite level positional coaching and the scouting of Barker we've been so spoiled with over the past five years.
     
  3. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    11
    RE: Alarming Observations (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    I agree totally that we miss Barker. He was the guy who'd hit the road at this time of year visiting almost every NFL training camp in a month's time. The man has connections everywhere & we let him walk away after some of his responsibilities he had in the organization were lessened. Pretty clear that he was miffed when he left as he probably felt disrespected & unappreciated for all the work he put in.
    Don't know why but it's pretty obvious there was a power struggle internally & Barker lost. Did that coincide with Ted Hellard leaving as he seemed unhappy as well as an owner when he left? Only the Stamps know for sure & they'll never tell. What I do know is that this team has never been the same since both men left.
    Is John Murphy as good a personnel guy as Jim was? I say the jury's still out on that one. From what I've seen, he hasn't done as good a job as Barker did bringing in players based on the talent level on this year's team. Chris Jones shared the personnel duties with Murphy last season & from what I understand he is now doing it all alone this season.
    Now maybe Murphy has as many connections as Barker. Maybe he's been visiting as many NFL camps as Barker did, I don't know. I do know that since Barker left, the personnel side of the team has become a big secret & I don't mean from a player perspective. I mean, from a public perspective. We don't know what Murphy is actually doing. He's doing things in anonymity instead of publicly like Jim used to do.
    Losing a guy like Jim Barker seems to have been a huge blow. While his Argos may infuriate me, there's no doubt that he brought in some very good players for the Argos the past 2 years. If he was here, those guys he brought in would be Stampeders. He may be the biggest loss to the Stampeder organization that we have suffered. Forget the coaching & player defections. Losing Barker may have been the biggest blow.
     
  4. Christoph

    Christoph Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    10
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    And yet somehow at the time he left the predominant attitude amongst fans seemed to be good riddance.
     
  5. Tundra Mustang

    Tundra Mustang Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,368
    Likes Received:
    621
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    I, for one, do not think there is anything wrong with how the team featured in the title to this thread is playing.

    They are in fact playing exactly like ''Stampders" in my view...:p

    TM
     
  6. deuvl

    deuvl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    6,862
    Likes Received:
    211
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    can't be worse than the roughrders.
     
  7. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    11
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    Well, deuvl. We did lay a whipping on your team the first game of the season. That seems like a whole other lifetime ago now. :(
     
  8. Bronko

    Bronko Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,887
    Likes Received:
    160
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    Hufnagel is probably coaching the same way as he's done before but he's had to become a split personality football man - Coach & GM - as a GM he makes a good coach but his dual responsibilities have caused problems. His personnel recruitment leaves much to be desired, even worse than Wpg but with a better QB (Tate not Glenn)

    Barker was a bit of an obnoxious personality but he knew his football and knew his guys. He's a below average CFL coach but well above average GM - the combo of Barker and the Huffer were pretty lethal.

    My own experience with Barker is a couple of our knife 'n forker board members in Wpg. recommended against hiring Barker cuz he was 6'3" and 400 lbs., slovenly....so they reached deep into the pickle barrel and came up with an older fogey who hadn't worked the CFL for nearly a quarter century (Mack). But Mack was fairly clean cut and thus took the Wpg. job.
     
  9. deuvl

    deuvl Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    6,862
    Likes Received:
    211
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    see where that got you, next time no whip. :p

    oh and just look at who's leading the league in yards passed this year. that guy who was supposed to be washed up. One TD from passing Moon.
     
  10. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    11
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    I have been critical of the Stamps offensive line. I will say this, I am very pleased with the play of Spencer Wilson. The guy looks like he is going to be a good one. He's a big strong body & with experience I think he'll be a solid player. So, along with Dmitri Tsoumpas we may have two good young starting offensive linemen. I think it's important I clarify this. I don't want to be looked upon as a fan that does nothing but bitch & whine while targeting the offensive line as it's not all bad.
     
  11. Rusty

    Rusty Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    10
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    Glenn still sucks. He had a good game though. Now I said something positive about him. Will he come out with another big game when it counts this week against the Riders? This next game will go a long ways into getting the 3rd spot in the western division. Lets pull it together boys.
     
  12. Tundra Mustang

    Tundra Mustang Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,368
    Likes Received:
    621
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    The kid reminds me of Lloyd Fairbanks in terms of his size and raw potential.

    We should be so lucky.

    Again.

    Lloyd had a 17 year career in the CFL, with 5 of those seasons being at the all-star level.

    Spencer can only get better with more experience.

    TM
     
  13. Erik Estrada

    Erik Estrada Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    0
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    I've been saying this all season that the talent level of this team is a shadow of the talent level when Huff came here in 2008 and took Higgin's and Barker's team to a Grey Cup. He was the fresh voice in the locker room that got what was a talented but selfish team focussed on team play. It worked for one year but the selfish play settled back in and Huff like Higgins has had no answer and the talent level is the worst it has been since the Feterik years.

    With the exception of the Bombers the Stampers are the least talented team in the league. Weak on both lines, no pass rushers, weak at safety, weak at receiver, weak running back depth. I would say that the strength of the team right now is special teams which means this is a bad football team.

    John Murphy would be on weak footing on any other team but Huff is so loyal the team could be 0-18 with no talent and Murphy's job would be safe. This may not be popular but I would take a shot at bringing in Shivers as assistant GM. The only time the Stampeders have ever had elite talent was when Shivers, Bouno, or Barker were taking care of personnel. What has John Murphy ever done? He's done a lot of various scouting and assistant work but since Barker left we haven't seen any diamond in the rough free agent pickups and the Canadian drafting has been abysmal. Pall was a huge swing and miss. The Parker pick also looks to be a waste as Huff looks determined not to remove his training wheels while Coehorn is having a nice season in Edmonton.

    We can only hope that the Stamps have their eyes on some solid NFL cuts in the coming weeks as this team needs help bad.
     
  14. Tundra Mustang

    Tundra Mustang Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,368
    Likes Received:
    621
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    More to the point, we had better hope someone here has the necessary skill to properly evaluate it when they see it...

    TM
     
  15. Erik Estrada

    Erik Estrada Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    0
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    Yeah. There better be at least two new contributing starters on roster by the end of September or we will have an idea where we are at in the player personnel department.
     
  16. Bumpnrun

    Bumpnrun Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    184
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    Here is my take why the Stamps "are what they are"

    1. Lack of leadership.

    Who are the leaders on Stamps? Presently I find the lack of leadership coincides with the selfish and undisciplined play of this team. Coaches can punish players by taking away playing time and benching them, or even cut them from the team. However, it is the players who make each other accountable. Who are the players in the locker room for the Stamps with the ability to stay calm and focused to the game plan?


    2. Placing all "Eggs in one Basket".
    Coming into this season the Stampeders hinged their hopes and success on mainly two players.
    • Tate & Cornish. Prior to this season the Stampeders have been fortunate to have a legitimate QB and RB in the lineup. With Tate getting injured early in the season really threw a wrench into the cog. Everything that DD and offense had planned in the off season for the Stamps revolved around Tate. I'm not saying with Tate as QB the Stamps would have a better record, but at the very least, Tate provides a different skill set from Glenn and had a firm grasp on the offensive system. Secondly the Stamps placed plenty of faith in Cornish to help lead the charge. Yet as I see it - all talent but still not mature enough to take on such a pivotal and key position in the team. Hufnagel had plenty of questions about his team.




    2.
     
  17. iso_55

    iso_55 Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    11
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    As the OL is struggling we have to cut Cornish a lot of slack. Sure, he was wrong to call the line out but he wasn't wrong. Two, he got cheap shotted twice. Once a brutal hit by Brandon Isaac. The other a pretty vicious poke to his eye. The refs aren't calling it so he & other Stamps took things into their own hands. The refs have a lot to answer for as well.
     
  18. cflrulz

    cflrulz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    8
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    The big problem I see with this team is that there is no fear of discipline. The players continue to be selfish and take dumb penalties but when they come to the sideline Huff does nothing. This seniority based playing time is not working look at Coehoorn in Edmonton and Ianuzzi in BC playing well because they have been given a chance, while we let Parker sit on the bench and watch Bauman and Franklin and Forzani be unproductive. Not even going to touch the Pall issue as that requires no comments, but overall our Canadian talent is adequate but could have been better with the Dinos right next door why would we take a guy like Hurl in the second round.
     
  19. Tundra Mustang

    Tundra Mustang Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,368
    Likes Received:
    621
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    I'll give you my take on it.

    If you want to be a professional football player who is worthy of the name, be professional.

    That means no personal vendettas are to be served through retribution that is sure to be penalized.

    Don't rage and taunt and get in your opponent's face.

    Instead, get in his head.

    I certainly get that Nik was sticking up for Corndog when he got in Isaac's grill and was beaking off after his catch and run put the Stampeders 1st and goal inside the 5.

    But he got caught doing it and the Stampeders never recovered from the ensuing penalty to put a major on the board on that promising drive.

    And Isaac leaves laughing.

    But what if the best blocking receiver in the CFL had instead laid out Isaac with a crushing block on either the next play, or at some later point in the game?

    After Isaac had regained consciousness and had been carried accordion-style from the field, do you really think he's the one laughing last?

    I doubt it.

    After a hit like that, Nik's not only sent a 'special delivery' message to Isaac about his cheap-shot on Cornish, but he's also gotten into that db's head.

    He'll be wearing his head on a swivel trying to get an exact bearing on where Lewis is on the field at all times.

    And that in turn opens up other possibilities.

    Both for him and for the other receivers.

    But that only works if you're focussed in your approach, and measured in your response to the cheap shots and taunting of your opponents.

    Take a number, and get them on the next play, or on the next drive.

    That's what professionals do.

    TM
     
  20. cflrulz

    cflrulz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    8
    RE: What's Wrong With The Stampders? (Never Thought I'd Ever Say This)...

    Well Tundra well said and you are absolutely correct.
    I'll give you my take on it.

    If you want to be a professional football player who is worthy of the name, be professional.

    That means no personal vendettas are to be served through retribution that is sure to be penalized.

    Don't rage and taunt and get in your opponent's face.

    Instead, get in his head.

    I certainly get that Nik was sticking up for Corndog when he got in Isaac's grill and was beaking off after his catch and run put the Stampeders 1st and goal inside the 5.

    But he got caught doing it and the Stampeders never recovered from the ensuing penalty to put a major on the board on that promising drive.

    And Isaac leaves laughing.

    But what if the best blocking receiver in the CFL had instead laid out Isaac with a crushing block on either the next play, or at some later point in the game?

    After Isaac had regained consciousness and had been carried accordion-style from the field, do you really think he's the one laughing last?

    I doubt it.

    After a hit like that, Nik's not only sent a 'special delivery' message to Isaac about his cheap-shot on Cornish, but he's also gotten into that db's head.

    He'll be wearing his head on a swivel trying to get an exact bearing on where Lewis is on the field at all times.

    And that in turn opens up other possibilities.

    Both for him and for the other receivers.

    But that only works if you're focussed in your approach, and measured in your response to the cheap shots and taunting of your opponents.

    Take a number, and get them on the next play, or on the next drive.

    That's what professionals do.

    TM
    [/quote]
     

Share This Page

Loading...